Curse

Kyp Jade · Jan 18, 2008, 06:18 PM // 18:18

they activate as soon as you perform an action, so basically hit the key, press space, and it activates

Lordhelmos · Jan 18, 2008, 06:36 PM // 18:36

I'm kind of disappointed with the current skill balance because it has failed to address many of the imbalanced skills of the current meta with the exception of magebane and warmonger's weapon.

I can't believe augury of death hasn't been touched... this is is as obviously overpowered as magebane and allows nearly any caster class to one hit K.O. spike.

Also in RA there are unkillable "Gothway" teams that use 3 Mo/A's and a Warrior to infinitely farm glad points in TA by using shove + 3 Mo/A's teleporting in and spiking with soulstone + holy strike.

What about Enchanter's Conundrum one hit killing frenzy warriors on the frontline in GvG? Shatter ench on the warrior + EC and Shattered Delusions is instakill on any frenzied front liner. Now warriors have to worry about getting dropped like a sack of potatoes in 1 second everytime they try to apply frenzy pressure...

Also not even a look at ranger survival? The fact that every enemy team has a cripshot ranger camped inside the enemy ward because of natural stride and mending touch? >.<

What about spiritway hex teams that use R/W's and N/Rt's to farm ranking in Burning Island due to anti-split? Do you have any idea how easy it is to make zaishen keys doing this? This build was a major balance issue and with the changes to VoD is gonna pwn even more because its entirely pressure based. Did I mention that DF currently lost a match to this cheap build? With hex eater nerfed how the hell are you going to fight these things? That skill was about your only trump card for not getting rolled by this trash gimmick.

Limited options for dervishing causing deep wound? O_O are you kidding me? Dervish have wounding strike, one of the best deep wound spamming skills in the game. How about you take a look at the sword line, which has ONE deep wounding skill which is Gash. Gash is totally conditional on the bleeding and gets pwned by RC. Oh also in PvE half the enemies in guild wars are immune to bleeding. Now dervishes have problems deep wounding in comparison to a sword warrior...

Oh well, thanks to the pious boost, I can throw a conjure lightning and shock on my derv bar and pwnface casters in 2 hits in arenas until they make a nerf pious thread...

~

In short this skill balance made all sorts of buffs to unused skills, which is fine. However it totally fails to address many of the overpowered skills and builds that stagnated the previous meta. I hope this isn't all thats being changed, because alot more needs to be done and this skill balance looks downright senseless, especially after all the feedback on Izzy's talk page.

I'll put it here simply, in nice big bold letters:

AUGURY OF DEATH
SWAY
GOTH WAY
ENCHANTER'S CONUNDRUM SPIKE
UNKILLABLE CRIPSHOT RANGERS

^If there are any disagreements in the fact the above are currently imbalanced speak up now or forever hold your peace.

romeus petrus · Jan 18, 2008, 07:21 PM // 19:21

When are u ppl going to realize that Ursan will NOT be nerfed. Anet made it very clear that this skill is doing exactly what it's meant to do. You dont like UB? nobody is forcing u to use it.

Gj on magebane, that skill was aching for a nerf.

darkdreamr · Jan 18, 2008, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

^If there are any disagreements in the fact the above are currently imbalanced speak up now or forever hold your peace.

Actually, the only one I agree with is Augury of Death. It should be a half-range skill. You seem to want everything to always remain at the status quo. I think things like enchanters conundrum spike and Mo/A smiters shake up the system in a good way, because it forces people to think. Sure, they may be gimmicks, but I'd much rather they be countered by smart players than by deus ex Izzy.

Figure out a way to deal. Change stimulates progress. Just my two cents.

HawkofStorms · Jan 18, 2008, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Except for a couple random trolls by Pheonix Tears (aka Zinger 2.0

)... this is BY FAR the most constructive and polite skill balance page ever.

That should tell a.net right there that they did something right.

I'm generally quite happy about the updates overall. The only change I kinda don't like is viper's defense (it was never really meant to be used on a sin using an attack chain... it was nice for non primary R/A and W/As before). I can live with the change though.

PS: @Helmos. Cripshot has been obsolete ever since R/Ds can run Ebon Dust Aura or Grenth's Grasp.

Lordhelmos · Jan 18, 2008, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Currently the only way to counter EC spike is to overload the target with prots and enchantments before the spike hits. With fast casting, the mesmer will beat you to the spike target. If the target is unprotted, unless you can get prot spirit AND spirit bond in before the attack hits, the target is dead. The first enchantment only adds to the spike because of shatter enchantment. If the enemy has ANY means of removing 2 or more prots before spiking there is no way to save the target because the cast time on EC spike is just too fast.

In TA there really isnt a way to stop gothway. All the monks have free elites for skills like WoH, which make them extremely defensive when not spiking. Once the knockdown hits and all the monks teleport in, the spike kills through both infuse and prots. This is because soul stone strike and holy strike are multi hit attacks that ignore prot spirit and spirit bond. Each spiker hits 4 times with unblockable holy damage, resulting in an attack that deals over 12 50 dmg hits to a protted target. This kind of attack ignores all prot, kills through WoH and sometimes infuse, and once the target is KD you can do nothing to stop it. Also there is no way to avoid it aside from camping your whole team in a ward of stability, since you can't cast aura of stability on yourself.

Under the light of those conditions, you say "smart players" should be able to stop these attacks? Well if prot doesn't stop it and infuse wont save the target then what are your options? Yes I am asking for Deus Ex Izzy, the above is more than enough good reason. These spikes need to be nerfed because right now there are no means of reliable self defense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

PS: @Helmos. Cripshot has been obsolete ever since R/Ds can run Ebon Dust Aura or Grenth's Grasp.

Cripshot is far from obsolete. You should check out more observer mode before making a comment like that. In high end games the only elite you are going to see on a bow wielding ranger are Burning Arrow, Cripshot, and Magebane. With Magebane nerfed, its no too clear on how often you will see it in high end games since the meta will shift.

What makes cripshot superior to EDA + Grenths Grasp (which I never really see anymore)? Well cripshot is unblockable, requires only one skill slot, in which you will need both called shot and Grenths Grasp on a bar to achieve the same effect as cripshot. Best of all, Cripshot is NOT and enchantment. Putting any enchantment on a high end ranger is insane because you totally gimp the survivability given from natural stride, which is the end to all overpowered solution to ranger splittability and survival for GvG. You have to be nuts to carry any sort of enchantment on a ranger over natural stride in any sort of high end game.

I dont think there really is any disproving arguement you could give to knowledgable PvPer's that would put Grenth's Grasp or EDA in favor over Cripshot. Unless natural stride is changed somehow, good rangers will ALWAYS carry the above mentioned skills over any enchantment based elite, and they will for good reason.

Nothing personal, just offering a strong counter arguement to your claim that cripshot is "obsolete." I really just pointed out some of the de facto basics of high end rangering and why they bring natty stride and no enchantments. Now that thats out, let the discussion continue. Well unless of course, someone can counter my arguement for cripshot.

Yichi · Jan 18, 2008, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X

The problem is lamers, UB'ing their way though vanquishing and missions, as long as that broken skill is out there protector, guardian and vanquisher are crap titles. Doesnt have a thing to do with DoA on why its bad for the game.

honestly those title didnt mean anything before or after ursan...

HawkofStorms · Jan 18, 2008, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

Cripshot is far from obsolete. You should check out more observer mode before making a comment like that.

I know it is still used. However, popularity doesn't mean its better.
Heck magebane even with the nerf will still be popular. As will BA. Cripshot is still popular, but not nearly as much as it used to be. It really has been obsolete and out of the mainstream meta since factions and later NF introduced better ranger elites.

Chicken Ftw · Jan 18, 2008, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Huge, resounding meh. VoD change is interesting. Magebane change is decent if you TA much. Not much else really matters. "Coward!" is secks on a para in arenas, interesting change to Pious. Wail of Doom should never be viable imo, being able to shut down a frontliner with nothing able to be done about it is retarded.

A really bad update that didn't buff DBS? That's a first.

Lagg · Jan 18, 2008, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

Second, can we please not turn this into another Ursan thread. There are plenty of other threads to do this in and has been debated to death.

While you are the big boss here and I'm not contesting your authority, you must understand that we simply want to hear something from ArenaNet.

We want an official word on how they perceive Ursan Blessing.

Yes, I'm aware of the fact that they've stated that the skill is working as intended.

But are people using it as intended?

Same thing with the Paragon when it was just released. I'm assuming it was properly beta-tested and found to be working as intended as a single party-support character in a balanced team.

However, after the release of Nightfall, people began using all-Paragon teams, completely breaking PvP with it (perma-Incoming and other craziness). Subsequently, the Paragon got hit with multiple atomic nerfbombs.

Now it's obviously a lot easier to spot broken PvP than broken PvE. Mobs don't come complaining on forums.

Lordhelmos · Jan 18, 2008, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

I know it is still used. However, popularity doesn't mean its better.
Heck magebane even with the nerf will still be popular. As will BA. Cripshot is still popular, but not nearly as much as it used to be. It really has been obsolete and out of the mainstream meta since factions and later NF introduced better ranger elites.

It's not popularity, its better because it's better. I updated my arguement as to why. There is no reason to bring Grenth's Grasp over cripshot when it gimps natural stride.

Lordhelmos · Jan 18, 2008, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by trobinson97

Fixed. The large part of the PvE crowd is appeased already. They are in game right now, UBing it up in their instances, as opposed to whining on a message board.

@Shadowspawn: Please accept my condolences that no one respects the pve titles that you hold so dear. Lol.

Look, having ursan overpowered to allow more class variety into elite dungeons is better than nerfing it so that elite areas once again become locked to all but the holy trinity of Warriors, Monks, and Eles.

Let's face it it, elite areas are badly designed so that they don't promote diversity. To counter this, a badly designed skill was created in order to allow all those sins, mesmers, paragons, and dervish to at least stand a chance in those areas.

The problem runs alot deeper than just ursan, its design and the areas as a whole. I can say I rather have ursan be broken stupid than to allow entire classes to get omitted from higher end areas. The only reason my sin has a mallyx in her monument is because of ursan. Consider me appeased.

EDIT: Sorry mods for the double post, posting lag ftl. On a 56k from a out of town computer ftl.

Draikin · Jan 18, 2008, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

I never really asked this before now, but has anyone found the lag of using a hero skill kinda annoying?

Very annoying, especially in Hero Battles.

Quote:

Updated the Hero AI for the Dervish Skill, Faithful Intervention.

There's still a lot of AI problems out there but I guess it's a start. Unfortunately the Hero AI for Divine Healing/Heaven's Delight and Pious Assault wasn't changed, so they are now used incorrectly by the AI after the update...

Lagg · Jan 18, 2008, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

Look, having ursan overpowered to allow more class variety into elite dungeons is better than nerfing it so that elite areas once again become locked to all but the holy trinity of Warriors, Monks, and Eles.

Let's face it it, elite areas are badly designed so that they don't promote diversity. To counter this, a badly designed skill was created in order to allow all those sins, mesmers, paragons, and dervish to at least stand a chance in those areas.

Ursan doesn't actually need to be nerfed to fix this issue.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10226490

And now I'll just shut up about it before I get banned and die of a bear-induced heart attack.

Sirius-NZ · Jan 18, 2008, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

Limited options for dervishing causing deep wound? O_O are you kidding me? Dervish have wounding strike, one of the best deep wound spamming skills in the game.

Pretty sure it said limited non-elite options. (P.S. Which it didn't... just said extremely limited - true enough as there are two other skills, sans cross-class skills like Augury of Death.)

Pious assault is still not better than AoM + Wearying Strike though. It requires a rendable enchant, which usually means Earth Prayers, which usually means less damage.

Kaelyn the Dove · Jan 18, 2008, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

The current form of Iway is, and has been, in dire need of a serious nerf. It's not the issue of an individual getting what they want, it's the issue of the game not getting what it needs. If you don't know what you're talking about stfu+gtfo ty.

/Agree. It sucks that every time I venture into HA, I see nothing but iway, iway, heroway, iway, iway, invoke spike, iway, heroway.

On a side note Ranocht, you should not take it so seriously when your corpse gets ranked in an ab

RhanoctJocosa · Jan 18, 2008, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaelyn the Dove

/Agree. It sucks that every time I venture into HA, I see nothing but iway, iway, heroway, iway, iway, invoke spike, iway, heroway.

On a side note Ranocht, you should not take it so seriously when your corpse gets ranked in an ab

Can you spell it any more wrong? Also, I don't recall being ranked recently in AB. Nonetheless, damn you ^^;

Racthoh · Jan 18, 2008, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

Let's face it it, elite areas are badly designed so that they don't promote diversity.

The only area where this is correct is DoA, but they changed that with the introduction of hard mode. The removal of the environmental effects made the zone welcoming to all professions. On hard mode, DoA is very badly designed and does not promote diversity at all. Would you take a physical into an area where it's going to miss 50% of the time? Are you going to bring a lot of casters into a zone where every skill causes a 2 energy loss?

The problem is PuG mentality, the players of this game are the ones who decide what professions/skills/tactics are useful and which are not. Elite areas are no different from anywhere else, there is discrimination against the unwanted professions everywhere.

Bryant Again · Jan 18, 2008, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

Look, having ursan overpowered to allow more class variety into elite dungeons is better than nerfing it so that elite areas once again become locked to all but the holy trinity of Warriors, Monks, and Eles.

How does it encourage variety when everyone's running nearly the same build?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordhelmos

The only reason my sin has a mallyx in her monument is because of ursan. Consider me appeased.

Or is it because you owned GW:EN? There's always going to be discrimination no matter what you do. At least with class discrimination you can reroll another character to solve the problem as opposed to having to fork out another forty bucks. Nonetheless, there are still quite a few people not playing how they want (I doubt a person rolled a mesmer to have big claws at hit stuff.)

RhanoctJocosa · Jan 19, 2008, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Ursan being overpowered is a nonissue. Ursan lets characters that would otherwise be excluded from certain areas of PvE actually find themselves in groups. If you want to promote character diversity, PvE skills need to be worked so that every character is worth taking over something like a TNTF/SY Paragon or an SS Necro. Until that happens, the Ursan stays, imo. It just doesn't affect other people enough to warrant a nerf.